Interview with Edith Morgan

"It is very important that women have some view of what is going on in their communities and in the world, so they are able to articulate their thoughts on injustices. We need more women who become known."

I never remember being hungry or homeless during the 1930's depression. I grew up in a large family, but I must say I had a very good mother and father who had made a very early decision to own their own house. So I was never homeless, ever. And I always had plenty of food.

But we had too many children in the family. There were eight eventually and I was the only girl in the first four. I had two older brothers and a brother just coming after me - fourteen months after me.

I had a mother who adored her sons, a good mother. She adored us and would have done anything for us but neither she nor dad saw that it was important for the girls to be educated. Now I must admit my two brothers, the older ones, both won senior scholarships - and they were very difficult to get in those the early thirties when we were just going in to the depression.

I left school when I was not quite fourteen and I know a teacher from the high school came to mum to say "look, this is terrible that she is not going on". But the situation economically was, at that time, unless you had a scholarship your parents had to pay for you, and my parents couldn't afford it. My father was a fitter and turner and very, very, concerned that his kids would grow up with enough food. As I said, I never was hungry in my life. I attribute that to my father.

The other issue against me - I was never told this - but my mother was pregnant again. In a sense, I was to be that sacrificed daughter who would leave school and look after mum and the babies. There were twins in that second lot. So I have always carried that like a burden on my back, that I had two things against me. One was the fact that you had to pay to have your child at school over fourteen and the other was the fact that mum was pregnant again.

I was the oldest girl. I always had a child on my hip. I became the sacrificial lamb - that's how I see it. I felt very trapped. And then mum wasn't well. There were terrible years after the birth of the twins, she had high blood pressure. She had a stroke when the twins were about two to three, and then she had successive strokes. She died at 63, almost like a vegetable. She had been in hospital but they couldn't cope with her because she yelled out all the time "come and get me, come and get me".

So it wasn't easy in those early years and things got tougher. Dad gave up his job and went into business in Essendon. He had three shops - a grocer's shop; a ham and beef store and a business selling grains, delivering food around to the farmers out in Keilor That was quite a long way away at that time! From there on we went down.

I am always amazed they never mortgaged the house. Things were tough. Then - eventually, as the depression increased and they couldn't keep on paying off the shops - they had to close. That was a big problem for the family. Dad went back into the railways.

My mother was a Methodist and I went to church for quite a while with her. I still like hymns, even today. I love hymns! My kids think I am dotty - they have never had any religion poked at them. In my family there were eight kids and not one them took up religion, or even became involved with the church in any way. It is interesting. Dad won out there. He was never antagonistic to mum about her religion, but he was very clear where he stood. He was very supportive of mum. If things were going on at the church he would go with it and do his bit, but he was not a believer. That is for sure!

All the kids followed Dad. I am always quite amazed at that. Not one of us would be seen in a church today. I used to go on a Sunday and sit next to mum at church. Her belly would rumble, rumble, rumble in church, making awful noises. We always had a big Sunday meal at night, with relatives coming, and mum was a great cook. They are very clear in my head, those days.

The twins were born in 1932. They were depression kids. But I never saw that we were depression kids like some of the families, who were renting and couldn't pay the rent. My dad, when he had the grocer's shop, would take food around to people who were struggling and drop a parcel on the verandah. One of the women in the Union of Australian Women says "if it hadn't been for your dad, we would have starved".He would just drop food in the middle of the night. He had lots of great things about him but he wasn't very forceful about how the children would be brought up in the sense that I always was envious of my three brothers - we only had three boys and five girls - who got all these advantages in life.

I was always bitter about the fact that the girls in my family could not go on. All of them were intelligent people. The girls had a special place in the family. I just think that issue of "but you don't need education, you will only get married" was common. Very few girls in my time even went to high school. I think this has dropped out of the conversation now, hopefully. That is not how our society is going.

My dad was a socialist. He had an immense effect on our family. He was very clear on some issues, for example, the anti-war stuff in 1914 when they had those first world war posters like the "WHAT ARE YOU DOING FOR YOUR COUNTRY?" posters. I wasn't alive then, of course. He was quite involved in the anti-conscription campaign. He was a strong figure in the union. He used to work down at Spotswood and if people were in trouble they would say "go and talk to Coldy, he'll know what to do (our name being Coldicutt). He was a wonderful man and we are very, very proud of our father - the girls particularly.Peace was the issue at that time. Dad took us all to Festival Hall when the Dean of Canterbury (the Red Dean) was here, who was a strong socialist advocate of the Soviet Union, and so forth.

It was a funny household in a sense. On the one hand we had mum with her very strong religious factor - though that diminished over time as her children all turned against religion, or just left it behind as something irrelevant in their lives - and on the other hand we had dad with his equally strong political convictions. Most of the family was devoted to political action, and that was dad's influence.

When I left school, an aunt, my mother's sister, lived with us. I can imagine the discussion that took place about what my future would be. It was entrapment. You were cut out from the world you lived in, the school world, and now you were just living at home; looking after the house, mum and the two babies. There was no opportunity to socialize and no money either.

I remember - when I was about fifteen or sixteen and getting a bit 'boy' conscious - taking the twins in the pusher to the park, hoping I would meet someone. As if they would be interested in me with two babies! When I think about it now, it is quite amusing. I went to work when I was nineteen, so I was home for quite a long time. I had no skills except having worked in Dad's ham and beef shop. I worked at a delicatessen in Footscray until I ran away and got married.

We ran away to Adelaide. Why I ran away was because I was entangled with another boy and it seemed to me that the easiest way out was to just piss off. So we did. Bill eventually was in the airforce, training as a navigator, and so I went to Sydney to live. That is where all my kids were born, in Sydney. That was when I joined the communist party, so that was another life for me.

I was involved with Ernie Thornton, of the Ironworkers Union, and his wife. They just lived up the road. I got entangled with them and had wide association with communists in New South Wales. There wasn't anti-Communist feeling then. Probably the only one who was really anti-Communist then was Menzies. He was a very strong influence, and of course it was touch-and-go whether we supported Hitler in those early years. Of course you would have been too scared to support Hitler after the war had been going for some time, particularly when the Soviet Union came in.

I got involved in many campaigns through the communist party during and after the war. Then I joined the Union of Australian Women, too. I was there at the inaugural meeting.

A strong nationalist feeling came in Australia after the war, an interest in Australian literature and films. There was that wonderful play that has never been properly shown. It was a musical, "Reedy River", written by somebody called Dick Diamond, I think. There was a strong peace campaign. There was some contradiction between where we had been fighting fascism and peace.

It was very difficult for some, that issue, because it was very important fascism was defeated. I think people generally, even those who would be strong antiwar activists like Joan Coxsedge, would have been out there in campaigns against Hitler.

The biggest thing when the war was over was the question of schools and the question of hospitals, medical services - the things that still involve us. Building homes for people was also an issue. There was a push to get all those things on the ground quickly. The whole infrastructure had gone to billyo. Nothing had been done for six years - nothing. Living conditions and the protection of families was the main issue at that time.

It was interesting to be involved in that and I certainly was involved in the whole question of national identity because that was a very strong factor amongst those groups.

I came back to Melbourne in 1956. I was living out at Warranwood. We bought a house there, but we were never in a position where we felt very secure. Bill was a salesman. He should never have been a salesman. He was a very intelligent man but somehow had no stability. He would work for a while to make enough money to have the next few weeks off. We never felt secure.

I joined the Union of Australian Women (UAW) in Melbourne. I didn't take out Communist party membership here because I was very disillusioned over their stand over Hungary and Czechoslovakia. I thought it was pretty terrible, what was done in those situations. I just let my membership lapse. It was when I met a UAW member outside Coles in Ringwood that I joined the UAW in Victoria. We had meetings in women's houses and that was when I hooked into something again. I also became very involved in the education of the kids. I was chairperson of the parents' committee and all that sort of stuff.

I went back to school and did matriculation. I did a social work degree at Melbourne University on scholarship. I then worked at the Royal Melbourne Hospital.

On the big day of the rally to stop the Vietnam War, people were invited to leave work and come to the rally. People in the social work department were asked to man the kitchens because of those who had gone to the rally. I was the only one in the department who said "I am sorry, I won't accept that and I will be going to the rally". Now, all of the other workers, except one woman who stayed with the head of the department, came with me!

It was a conservative degree I did at Melbourne University, aimed at controlling the population, but aren't all those things aimed at controlling the population? Whether we call it community development or whatever it is, you are trying to turn a population a certain way. I disagreed with this. I wanted to work for change.

At the university someone said "oh, Edith thinks she is not a social worker but she is".

I have a strong belief that unless you look politically at what you are doing, and understand the power structures, you are not going to get anywhere, really. Otherwise I think you are kidding yourself if you think there is something special about what you can achieve. Because the reality is, it is looking at the power situation that will give some sort of clear view of where you are going. You have to know what the power structures are that are going to stop you, as they tried to do at the Royal Melbourne Hospital, imposing "you can't go out, you have to stay" on us.

I was ready to escape from the hospital. You really didn't have a say in anything. The head of the department made the decisions and it was an atmosphere of control. As soon as my two years bondage was up, I was off.

I think one of the catalysts for women getting involved in issues was certainly the Vietnam war. We only have to look at some of our members of the Union of Australian Women who were arrested at a rally and charged with obstructing, I think there were six of them. They were, actually, recently invited back to Vietnam. That rally led to quite an action out at Fairlea where they were imprisoned. Huge crowds were outside the prison. The women inside were supporting our women who were there. It was just wonderful. Then we all marched around to the Governor's place.

That rally joined together people who were concerned about what was happening. I think that as a catalyst for action, that was one of the most successful things that were done. And those women, "Save Our Sons", would be there day after day after day.

These things act as catalysts for political action and for justice.

The question of justice has always been important to me, all my life. I think that is my mother coming out in me. That is, fairness, seeing that no section of your community is suffering. Not that you can do much about it! But by being involved in certain campaigns, some of it may have some positive effects. Look at the things women in the Union of Australian Women have done. They weren't allowed to march carrying placards in the 1950's, when carrying placards was banned, so they wrote the messages they wanted to get across on aprons and marched in single file so they couldn't be charged with obstruction, wearing the aprons!

Women who are out there campaigning are unique, in a sense. So many women are still passive, even though they may privately voice disagreement with what is happening. To get them to that political act of declaring allegiance is another matter. We know that by the fact that so many are silent. The Vietnam moratorium was fantastic in the sense of bringing like-minded people together.

I joined the Labor Party to support Jim Cairns, who opposed the Vietnam war. The Labor party here stopped Jim Cairns from going to Monash to talk to the student groups. Stupid stuff! I actually went to Trades Hall and appeared before everybody when I stood for preselection. I got such applause. I hadn't done it to get in - I did it because Race Mathews was standing for preselection without anybody opposing him. I ran close, two votes. I could have appealed but I didn't want it for myself, I was happy in my job, but I thought it was important to have a political perspective.

It was a very eclectic time to be in the Labor party. Issues were becoming differentiated. The abortion debate was on, for example. Going to meetings was very fascinating, seeing all the particular issues come out. I found it exciting, actually.

I stayed with the Labor party till Bob Hawke came in, when I got out.

At work, I had a job as the social worker for Collingwood Council. I started working there in 1972. found working at the council fascinating because they never had anybody in that position before - the councillors had played the game of being the social worker, or whatever it was. I was the first social worker who was appointed. When I came to work I was selected by councillors for the position, so the Town Clerk hated my guts.

The Town Clerk had never even been to the Housing Commission flats. You could see his feet were nearly falling off when we finally went! The tenants had never had any place to speak within the council. They paid rates. Although it wasn't personally taken out of their rent, they were ratepayers. But Collingwood Council divorced that area completely from their perceived area of responsibility. They didn't even pick up the rubbish. I kept on pushing the point that those residents on the estate were ratepayers and as much deserving of as much attention as the people living in Clifton Hill.

The only place that had free health services was Singleton's, which offered health and welfare services on a charity model. It had stated 125 years ago as Singleton's Medical Dispensary and Welfare Centre - established by one Dr Singleton and his wife, also Dr Singleton. It had a good reputation mainly. Molly Hadfield talks of going there as a child in the mornings for a bath and being given a hot breakfast too.

But by the time I came to Collingwood Council, it was run by the Ladies Benevolent Society and I saw some horrific things happening. There was a man who was sent home without treatment. He was found sitting at home, dead, a week or so later. The gangrene in his leg was so bad he hadn't been able to leave the chair since he crawled back from Singleton's.

"People had romantic views of Singleton's, but in many respects they let people down. It was funded through the Health Department of Victoria, with a board made up of people who did not represent the community and did not live in the area - not appointed by the community and not accountable to the community. I think they looked on the people who came as the unworthy poor.

I always argue that if you give a service for 'poor' people, you'll give a poor service. You've got to be saying 'This service will be for all people, including the poor'.

They had a very judgmental attitude. I was invited to address the AGM at the Singleton's Centre in 1973. At the AGM, people were (virtually) saying things like 'the people have to pull themselves up by their bootstraps!' I hadn't researched this at all, but I think there would have been many people who would not have gone to Singleton's for a service, because of those attitudes.

The big difference in the transition to the Collingwood Community Health Centre was the move from a charity model to seeing services as a right. Dancing in the Kitchen, Portraits of Collingwood's Older Women p.20-21 Available from Marlies Blatz, North Yarra Community Health Centre, 365 Hoddle Street, Collingwood Vic 3066, $15 including post in Australia

There were changes at that time - positive changes like council opening up to people. It had been a very closed set.

But then other things happened. The outsourcing of council services changed a lot of the opening up of Council. At one time, all the people working on the Council staff knew the residents. They had been there for years and lived in the area. But that all went. Also, the Home Help services and Meals on Wheels - all outsourced. A beautiful kitchen nearly wasted. Competitive tendering came in after my time. I wouldn't have been able to stop it - the government was all in favour of it.

Because I became well known, councillors started coming a bit behind me. But when I went there, there was an office - and a shitty office at that - but not a pencil, a pen, a piece of paper or anything. It was difficult, but I quite enjoyed it because I managed to get a number of people, both from the high rise and around the area - people who required support, or whatever I was doing - behind me. Eventually, when I did go, they gave me a big reception.

I did work with people - got to know them. I still see people when I go down to the Collingwood Community Health Centre who say "Oh, Edith, it has never been the same since you left. With you we had somebody we could talk to, who understood us." Very interesting stuff!

Social justice and economic justice cannot be separated - they are intertwined.

Look at Tony Blair's "Third Way". It is absolutely disgusting what he is doing. It is so obvious he is using all of this terrorism to give himself a chance to grandstand. It is insincere and dreadful. But that is how Labor here has been going. Now they are going to disassociate themselves from the union movement. Maybe they have had an undue presence, for example we have never had a lot of women, but the Labor party has lost the class issue. To me, that is the only way you can really identify what the problems are. It is almost as if class doesn't exist any more. That has been a deliberate tactic. You don't hear the word 'working class' any more. They are stripping the awards and the things that have been run for people, steadily. And there is more coming.

Nowadays you can't ignore such things as the World Trade Organisation (WTO). It affects all areas. It certainly shows through in housing, for example. Services for people are diminishing all the time.

There is an element of privatisation coming in to it because the WTO is very clear, and so is our Prime Minister, that taxation is killing our economy. Now we have voluntary taxation - some wealthy people use devious ways to pay virtually no tax at all. This, I am sure, is affecting us all. It will make services more difficult to obtain. You will find that services which ordinarily would have been seen as important and necessary, are now going to be diminished or those who have to use it will be subject to massive intrusion into their lives.

We have seen what happens in countries where the WTO is involved. People talk glibly about the WTO and free trade and how it is going to help poor people. It is bullshit. You just see the tragedy in the Third World countries now. This eruption of disputes and wars that we now live with - I put it all down to that.

What is happening to banks and banking services is a good example of privatisation. The banks want more and more and more while decent jobs and services go down.

In housing, the Social Housing Innovation Project (SHIP) is another privatisation which is taking place. Make no mistake, that is what is happening here. In the name of social or community housing we are losing housing as a service for people. SHIP is taking public housing away. It is also getting more and more difficult to keep the Commonwealth Government in the Commonwealth State Housing agreement. I am not to sure about the Labor Party, either. I am not sure they are going to keep public housing, or even housing, as a very important element of their policy. They hardly even mentioned it at the last election.

As time goes by it becomes very, very clear that we have a capitalist hold on the world.

On issues of equity and poverty I feel impelled to act. I suppose I have always had it in me, but it was only after I got married that I learned to come out a bit. I was a very shy, introverted person, I have to say. I never found it easy to speak out at a meeting, but I have got better at it over time.

As to work I have done, such as being on the Guardianship and Administration Board, National President of the Australian Pensioners & Superannuants Association, I found them a challenge but very interesting to be there.

Also, how you tackle the press - because they are tackling you all the time and trying to divert you - so you have got to be that far ahead of them to get back to the issue that you feel is the important one. You see it all the time - they trivialize very important issues by picking on one aspect. During the election it was quite obvious.

I think we need more women who become known so they can become spokespersons.

I think that it is very important that people have some view of what is going on in the world, and in their own communities, so they are able to articulate injustices and where we should be going.

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